Don't know if I'm doing this right, but I'd like to back The Changeling and The Beyond.

Welcome to the decision-making process, fort.

We have found our 22nd film, and it's The Changeling, which joins The Fog in the Top 22 list.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthre...=57593&page=99

All in agreement or there's more scope for debate over the two films above?

Those two are fine with me.

Allow me to quote you again. I agree, I think Near Dark is a better film than The Fog. Much better actually.

I have to Neg The Fog - I'm a huge Carpenter fan, but the Fog is too flawed to be in the Top 22. To quote some Fog reviews that say it better than me, "dull collection of stock types whose illogical and frequently stupid actions are necessary to advance plot and generate what passes for suspense." and "Fairly dull ghost story occasionally given a boost by the cast and by Carpenter's proficiency with the genre." That's what I thought as well. It has major flaws and very mixed reviews. I don't think it's worthy to be in the Top 22. Carpenter is represented in the Top 22 with The Thing. I'm going to Neg The Fog, and see what happens.

I think The Return of the Living Dead (1985) and Near Dark (1987) are much more deserving. Even Carpenters' They Live and Christine were better, as is Day of the Dead and Predator.

I completely disagree. It may not have been his most brilliant film, but, in my opinion, but it is still pretty brilliant. I think the story/premise is very interesting and the atmosphere was perfect. The acting was excellent and on that note the film featured THREE scream queens (Adrienne Barbeau, Jamie Lee Curtis, and Janet Leigh). This film is also genuinely creepy. Of course, one can not forget the score, which was creepy and beautiful. I think this film is a classic (and far from okay) that definitely deserves a place in the top 22. I do agree that Return of the Living Dead and Near Dark are excellent, but I, personally, would still rank The Fog above them.

Okay, I'll play. I backed The Fog mainly for sentimental reasons, though I do think the opening is BRILLIANT, one of the best sequences Carpenter ever filmed, with a masterful performance by Houseman. I loved Barbeau as the sultry radio host, and loved presenting those bits during my Halloween broadcasts, but ultimately the plot descends into silliness.

So, I remove my backing of The Fog and give it to Near Dark.

So with neverending dropping his vote for The Fog and Sculpt's neg, if I'm counting right, it looks like a three horse race for the final spot between RotLD, Near Dark and The Beyond. Wow, tough choice. I agree with neverending's assessment of The Fog having a brilliant beginning, but not that much to write home about after that. For me, it's a huge drop off from Halloween and The Thing -- much more than The Brood is from other Cronenberg films in contention.

I love K-Demon's plea for RotLD. I think she's right -- the film is influential. As a middle schooler, my cousin and I used to go around saying "braaaiiins," and I had never even seen the movie back then. It's a more accessible take on the genre than Romero's, and is a precursor to the comedy horror trend that picked up in the 90s. I love how it directly references Romero's film as a plot setup device, and makes "the guy that made the movie" complicit in a government cover-up. Really good, well-liked movie.

I only watched Near Dark after metternich mentioned in the Last Seen Movie thread. I'm really wondering how I had never heard of this one before that. Great film. I loved it, and I'm not all that big on vampire films. Immersive soundtrack by Tangerine Dream. The group kill scene in the bar had me rooting for the victims to be spared. True Blood has lifted more than a couple details straight from this film. Perhaps a little too perfect an ending for my tastes, but overall, very enjoyable.

Both of those films are excellent choices for the top 22, but in the end, I've got to go with my original vote. I had The Beyond ranked #9 overall in my submission for the 80s. It's surreal, has some excellent, creative practical gore effects, and spiders that bite people's faces off. I enjoy zombies, but typically they don't scare me. The slow, staring ones in this film do, as does that chick's eyes. Some might not enjoy the non-linear nature of the story, or might consider it nonsensical, which is fair, but for someone that enjoys surrealism and the bizarre, I think it makes more sense than it's often believed to. Even if it didn't, it wouldn't matter. I'd choose the film that had the most impact on me, and this one is it.

All added.

The Fog drops out of the 22nd spot, and The Beyond sneaks in.

4 other films (as underlined) are staring at that 22nd spot as well, so it's still up for grabs.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthre...=57593&page=99

Keep the thoughts coming.

I'll back The Beyond (1981) for the final spot.

Looks like The Beyond has just sealed the 22nd spot with that backing by realdealblues.

All in agreement? If yes, we can start on the Honorable Mentions.

Works for me

Those choices are fine with me, even though I love The Fog.

So are we still trying to fill one spot for the 22nd?

If so then I think I have to go with The Fog. For me, Adrienne Barbeau as Stevie Wayne is what really sets this movie apart. Its such an innovative movie in the way that it uses her character. The scenes where Stevie, from her radio tower, directs the towns folk to safety are really clever. She becomes more than simply a character in the movie, she is almost an extension of the audience at this point, before then being dragged head long back into the movie when her radio shack is under siege. I can't really articulate exactly what it is about the way her character plays out, but for me, there is something really special about it.

That said, I'm not going to have any complaints if The Fog doesn't make it, there are plenty of solid films being backed that I certainly would be backing for honourable mentions myself if they don't squeeze into the final spot before. There are still one or two flicks I'd like to get behind for honourable mentions too that haven't had much backing yet, so I'm hoping there will still be a bit of room for debate once we nail on the 22nd film. :cool:

As long as I've gone this far, I might as well be up front to the end. I think the Fog is a better film than The Beyond. I just saw Beyond recently. I can try to appreciate it as "a nightmare" (as it's often very illogical and disjointed), but I think the story and characters are very weak, as if just excuses for gore effects. There's creepy mood to it, but still not a very good film. I'm negging The Beyond, whether if makes any difference or not. Hopefully there's someone(s) out there who can back a better film, such as The Return of the Living Dead, Near Dark, Day of the Dead or Predator.

Agree.....

[edit] (Agreeing to the selected 22. Not to re-opening the debate or neg-voting The Beyond.)

Also, Sculpt, if I'm being honest, all the neg voting is starting to look like an abuse of that process element for the purpose of shaping the list to your personal tastes. Remember, this is all subjective. Some people love The Fog, some people don't. Some people enjoy a loosely-defined, non-linear format, some people don't get it. IMO, the decision to neg vote should be made with a good deal of discretion. I didn't use a neg vote during the 60s, when nobody except metternich was willing to drop even their 6th favorite film from a list already outside the top 22 for the decade, for the guy -- Mario Bava -- who made the first Italian horror film, the first slasher and created the template for J-horror, [edit:strikethrough (subjective)]and unlike some of the classics of that decade, his works holds up to this day[/edit]. That is not a matter of personal taste, and yet I still resisted. Seriously man, ease up a bit.

All this is achieving is making everyone run in circles, and delaying the decision process. This project is already over-delayed as it is, and I really hope we have the sticky up before Halloween season kicks in. (hopefully!)

Plus, I think I'll put that ONE negative vote ruling into effect from now, even though there was a SECOND negative vote cast by the same member.

A THIRD negative vote is out of the question here.

It's pretty much abusing the liberty one is given, by negative voting those films which simply aren't to their likings or tastes.

Although, to be frank, even that negative vote for The Beyond won't affect it much, since it's still ahead of it's nearest competitors.

Unless someone else speaks against the film, it won't drop out of that 22nd slot anytime soon.

But, in the interest of fairness, I'll keep this open for 12 more hours. If things stand as they are right now, The Beyond will seal it's place in the Top 22 and we start working on our Honorable Mentions.


EDIT - Just went back to check the date when I bumped this dead & buried project to revive it. It was November last year!! My word, 10 months of decision-making! Should be some sort of a record, this.

Ooh, good call. That would be great timing.

Dang, that's a lot of work you've put in. Much appreciated. I will say, I'm not complaining that it's been a long-running thread. It's by far my favorite thread on this forum. Although, at times it does seem to stagnate a bit, no fault of yours... Thanks for helping us power through it.

We're in the home stretch now. :cool:

Come on everybody. Let's decide already

I'll back The Beyond.

Thanks, but it wouldn't have been possible without everyone's contributions, Giganticface. So, pat on the backs from me to everyone involved in this project!

NE's stamp of approval pretty much seals the deal for our Top 22 films for the 80s.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthre...=57593&page=99

Let's now look at the frontrunners for the Honorable Mentions...

The Return of the Living Dead
The Fog
Near Dark
Predator

...have 3 backings each. The Fog has 4 backings but a negative vote too, so that's 3 overall.

In addition, there are a bunch of films with 2 backings each (underlined as well) - Demons, Child's Play, Christine, and Day of the Dead.

So we have EIGHT films vying for those SIX spots. There are other films with single backings which could spring a surprise as well.

So, let's hear 'em, folks.

Films that I'll back that I have not already backed will be (if I already backed one of these, then I apologize, but I am pretty sure I did not):

Return of the Living Dead
Pumpkinhead
Day of the Dead

I realize that I have, technically, backed more than six, but, to be honest, I believe all the films that I have backed deserve a place on the honorable mention section, so whichever ones make it would be fine with me.

Clearly, the 1980s was a great time for the horror genre, in my opinion.

I'll hopefully help seal the deal on two great films that others have made compelling pleas for:

Return of the Living Dead
Near Dark

[Edit]
I'll also back Demons because those demons are straight up rabid.

I'll also back Sleepaway Camp for being so unique in so many ways -- the real child actors, the screwed up exploitative themes, the terrible, Basket Case level, acting, and of course the WTF ending that you couldn't forget, even if you wanted to.

Return of The Living Dead
Pumpkinhead
Near Dark
The Fog
Predator
Child's Play

Apart from the ones I already backed, I will back Pumpkinhead, Demons and Day of the Dead.

Okay, all are duly added, and it looks like Return of the Living Dead and Near Dark have pretty much sealed themselves in the chosen SIX. (with 6 and 5 backings, respectively)

Our Honorable Mentions looks like this right now:-

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthre...=57593&page=99

The Fog has sneaked in despite a negative vote because it has 5 backings.

Underlined a few other films under the DEBATABLE section which are still in the fray for a spot in the SIX.

If we mutually agree on the FIVE finalised ones under Honorable Mentions, then we have to pick one between Pumpkinhead and Predator for that final Honorable Mentions spot (both have 3 backings each - Pumpkinhead has 4 with a negative vote, while the rest of the underlined have 2 each).

Keep the thoughts coming, folks.

I will withdraw my backing of Pumpkinhead. It is a great film, but, in my opinion, Predator is a clearly superior film.I agree with the other five chosen choices, they are all great films that deserve to be in the honorable mentions section.

Near Dark
Demons
Cat People
Blue Velvet

There's one other movie that I'm going to back that wasn't part of my original 20, it was a movie I considered but decided against, but I think it is perfect as an 'honourable mention' type of film. I'm not really expecting it to make the list, I just feel that I should back it. Also if people don't think its fair to back a movie that wasn't in the lists then I totally understand that and I'm not trying to be a dick or stagnate the process, so please just ignore this if it seems inappropriate.

Street of Crocodiles (1986): This is an amazing animated short from The Quay brothers. Its hard to really give a synopsis and the plot is secondary to the experience. This movie really is visual cinema at its best, dripping with bizarre nightmarish imagery it really is a surreal masterpiece. This is a world of decayed porcelain dolls and unknown mechanical contraptions that really needs to be seen to be appreciated. The beautiful stop motion just adds to the surreal nature of the movie. I think its the sort of movie that every fan of surreal cinema needs to see, but equally that so many horror fans will adore.

I appreciate that there are some great movies pushing for just a few slots and I'm aware that I tend to back movies that aren't so well known. At this point in the process I'm not looking to slow things down, this is just a backing for a movie that I adore and I would've felt wrong for not supporting it. But, here is a link to the movie, its only 20mins and while I doubt it will be for everyone, I think its bizarre and interesting enough for at least some of you to get a real kick out of.

In my opinion, it is fine to back films that were not in my list because I have backed several, possibly a dozen (maybe more) films that were not in my list. Either because I believe now they should make the list or when I made the list I had not seen the film.

I agree on the finalized films. Between Pumpkinhead and Predator, I'll go with Predator for the final spot. Its the better of the two films.

Pumpkinhead
Near Dark
Blue Velvet (Frank Booth is one scary SOB)
Demons
Sleepaway Camp (Bigface makes a convincing case for it)
Cat People (This is just a brilliant film with mind-blowing imagery, stunning art direction, stellar performances and a knockout soundtrack)

Thanks for posting Streets of Crocodiles! I never would have seen this if you hadn't posted it. I'm an aficionado of the art form. The sets, photography and music are very beautiful and unique (to me). One doesn't often hear classical violin, cello, harpsichord and flute with juice harp. I had to laugh when the engineers displayed the different length screws to the released puppet man. I needed to read the plot/themes on Wikipedia to see if I was understanding the subtle meanings/themes. Would love to see this on the big screen. I look forward to seeing their other works.

For Honorable Mentions, I'm good with the top 5, and believe Predator is the worthy 6th. Besides my 5 backings already noted on the list page, I also support Streets of Crocodiles as the 6th.

Also, Cat People is beautifully shot. Giorgio Moroder musical score is excellent. Love his compositions What a Feeling, Danger Zone, Take My Breathe Away, theme for NeverEnding Story.

Glad you enjoyed it, you'll find plenty of reviews and essays online to help with some of the meanings and subtext but while interesting reading, you are unlikely to be fully satisfied with the interpretation of others. So much of it works on a subconscious level and fires up your own imagination and while you (meaning the viewer) might feel like you don't fully understand it, there is something in the imagery that just resonates.

Yes, I know what you mean. One can feel one's heart resonating with the subconscious' interpretations of the imagery and music, so to speak. [Interesting to note: studies reveal the electrical signature waves, seen between heart beats, have recognizable wave signatures correlating to emotional states (anger, fear, compassion, etc). Ancient references to the heart have more basis than originally thought.]

Gonna absolutely put everything behind Sleepaway Camp.

One of the most imaginative and unique American horror films ever made, it plays with genre conventions (almost in a Lynchian way). It utilizes soap-opera drama to contrast with increasingly bizarre murder scenes, as well as dealing (tangentially?) with gender/sexuality issues. And the ending. My God. A master stroke that, in one jaw-dropping instant, recontextualizes everything that came before it, casting an instant haze of sickening confusion and creeping menace. Here's a little blurb I wrote for it quite some time ago if you're looking for additional backup on this movie: http://enjoythemonologue.wordpress.c...rier-scariest/

Looks like our 6th Honorably Mentioned film won't be either Pumpkinhead or Predator, but Sleepaway Camp!

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthre...=57593&page=99

Although, both films can still contend for that spot with one more backing.

Have your say, folks.

I'll back Sleepaway Camp.... I think its received enough strong backings to make it a worthy inclusion so I'm happy to get behind it too.

I would have liked Predator (1987) to have at least made honorable mentions (for the reasons I described earlier in this thread). It definitely deserves it, but those six choices are really great and they are fine with me.

Nice writeup, and beyond that, great blog. I dig your writing style. I don't suppose you plan to start updating it again? I'd definitely RSS that shiz. Love the post about the movie posters.

Id prefer having Predator and Pumpkinhead in after thinking about it but I dont want to hold things up. So those are good with me.